James Holden: „My music must contain a lot of emotions; if it doesn’t, I don’t think it’s worth recording”

Hubert Grupa: Most people seek entertainment, a form of art, or an outlet for their emotions—both good and bad—in music. What do you seek in music today as a listener, and what do you look for as a creator?

James Holden: I think in both roles I’m looking to be interested, for something new (-to-me), and I guess looking for stuff that makes me feel something, whether that’s providing a surface to project my own feelings onto or putting me in a state of trance (which I think is a different thing). My own music, I find myself needing it to contain a lot of feeling or I don’t think it’s worth hitting save, I’m not sure this is a helpful pattern I want to hold onto though.

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In your opinion, what is the most limiting factor for electronic artists who primarily focus on club-friendly esthetique?

For me the limiting factors of writing for clubs always seemed like an inspiring thing to push against, and in some ways I miss that a little. It’s somehow easy to write music if you sit down with the joyful aim of irking the conservatives! I’m hardly the only one with this approach, you see it in various degrees in all kinds of scenes, but in hindsight it seems perverse – a lot of people who like interesting music won’t go to clubs, a lot of people who go to clubs think the music should function ‘correctly’. Did I spend 15 years of my life shouting at the tide to go back? Was fun anyway.

Listening to your contemporary recordings (by the way, I am a huge fan of „This Is A High Dimensional Space Of All Possibilities”), it’s difficult to categorize them by genre, but that isn’t what’s important. Do you think, like in the past, that you might experience a moment of boredom with music? Or have you trained yourself to seek inspiration so broadly that you no longer fear returning to that point?

I feel like I get bored of myself sometimes, despite all the wide influences I’m stuck with the same particular urges and hangups and etc. But then they’re an inspiration too, if I can identify and get over mental blockages I get to write new music. The next record with Waclaw Zimpel very much falls into that category I think, held safe in his supportive arms I felt liberated to try things I’d never tried before.

We are discussing your joint tour with Wacław Zimpel. Your EP „Long Weekend” is not only a splendid showcase of skills, blending styles and approaches to music but also features a sound that flows naturally from you as creators. Was there any room for calculation in this? Did you ever agree on achieving a specific effect or sound?

We didn’t really plan anything with those records – each song was a single day’s work, a rapid process of creation as the various loops and patches got put together – clarinet into the modular, modular into the clarinet.. – and then a few takes until it felt right. It was a lovely process – I’m a little shy, not a natural people person or a natural collaborator really, but we just clicked immediately, understood each other’s impulses, made space for each other.

Wacław is referred to as a chameleon, and one could say the same about you. Which aspect of his creative process or artistic mindset surprised you the most?

Good question! I think my biggest surprise is how fast he’s gone from instrumentalist to producer – when we first met he was working with other producers, within no time not only had he learnt to put records together himself, in his own unique way (see that Train Spotter LP for example!) but was coming up with ideas for unique effects to go with his own particular direction of musical exploration (the ‘pitch gate’ plugin we made together which is available for max for live and benny).

„Long Weekend” is material that practically begs for continuous, ever-expanding live improvisation. Did you encounter any difficulties in limiting yourselves regarding instrumentation, structure, or the length of the tracks?

Things which could go on forever don’t have to, there’s always a feeling about what the right shape is that forms before you’ve really managed to play it through once. And then you know you’ll be playing it live so you can explore all the other ways it could’ve gone then. I think that’s one of my favourite things about the way I work now – every live set takes a different shape, so there’s always a chance of a big surprise or a new revelation. Particularly playing with Waclaw, because I’m not responsible for all of the backbone of the music I feel quite free to take risks and experiment.

In John Doran’s interview for The Quietus, he states that you do not fetishise equipment. Would you agree with this? Do you believe that recording valuable music can be accomplished with the simplest devices or instruments? Or perhaps we should frame it differently—maybe it’s not worth fetishising skill, as excessive perfectionism stifles creativity?

The luxurious things – whether that’s amazing recording equipment or incredible skills – can be confusing. I’ve caught myself thinking a wav file is good just because it went through some pricey gear, and I’ve seen the equivalent mistake happen with amazingly skilled players. But I do love the machines, building life with them is such a big part of how I make music. And I do love having skilled musicians around! But I can only hang with jazz players who laugh at the idea of playing giant steps in every key or whatever.

Speaking of perfectionism, do you find yourself making mistakes and accepting them?

100%, always, from wrong notes to total disasters. Really into truth in recordings (the animal spirits LP had zero overdubs/edits as a rule, for example). On the next record with Waclaw there’s a moment where he played something shockingly beautiful, I turned to gesture at him excitedly and knocked my cup of tea on the floor. I guess I could’ve tried to edit it out but that would’ve been a lie, covering up the best moment of the song with some fakery.

“Coding induces a trance-like state for me. I know that when I’m feeling miserable about something, I can focus on something like that. This reflects how my brain operates; I genuinely enjoy being in a trance state”—another quote from your interview with The Quietus. Do you think trance as a genre relies more on the feelings it evokes than on its sonic aesthetics? Following this line of thought, I see many commonalities between trance and various other genres, even those stylistically distant like jazz or metal.

Yeah! The genre really confuses discussion about this, because a lot of trance.. isn’t trancey. I think it’s a natural part of being human, though maybe some people’s brains are a bit more disposed towards these states than others? We saw the metal band ‘Smote’ recently. 100% trance. Kevin Richard Martin – trance. Gnawa music – trance. Etc! I enjoy how it’s also a social, ritual thing – in all these settings (including the gnawa ritual) the audience co-create the trance. For me I guess this is the way I can connect to a group of people – a lot of crowd dynamics creeps me out (audience participation! puke) but if everyone gets their head down to synchronise brainwaves I’m happy.

Next year marks 25 years (!) since your recording debut—the single „Horizons” / „Pacific” for Silver Planet Recordings. Regardless of what happened shortly thereafter, how do you remember that time?

It was a blur, totally overwhelming. I had no idea what was going on, what it meant, how lucky I was with that big break! Quite funny in places, coming into the british dance industry (which was a rotten pyramid scheme of course) as a silly young punk who didn’t really understand or respect a lot of it.. Meeting all these legends, heroes, accidentally insulting a couple of them. All these old industry creeps thinking they’d found a cash cow (lol wrong!). A 50 year old man introducing us to myspace. Learning slowly how to bring a crowd along with me, how to make the things I had in my head actually work. Hiring a lawyer. The bit that followed was better.

Wacław seems to be a grateful collaborator. Instead of asking whom you would like to invite to collaborate with yourself today, I will ask whom you would invite to collaborate with Wacław.

What a gift! He’s played with so many different people, I wonder who he’d enjoy the most. Looking forward to asking him. Zakir Hussain would be a fun one, or Terry Riley perhaps. Or, I’m lighting seven candles in a circle and bringing some people back from the dead: with 70s Pharoah perhaps, or I love when Waclaw really lets go, his particular lyrical way of soloing is amazing, so I’d like to hear that on a Freddie Mercury solo record! Or even some proper cheesy 80s horn solo business, roland chorus on the mic, Waclaw playing a new 20 minute solo over the last verse of ‘california dreaming’ or ‘young turks’ or..

Wacław Zimpel invites James Holden – concerts and tickets

During the DO 3 X SZTUKA concert series, Wacław Zimpel will present himself to the audience in three different acts. The first act will be a solo performance focused on ambient music in its contemplative form, featuring the sound of the alto clarinet processed through synthesizers. For the second time, Zimpel will appear alongside James Holden. The two will take listeners on a journey through the tradition of kraut rock, influences from American minimalists, spiritual jazz, and trance filtered through various cultural lenses. Finally, Zimpel will be joined by masters of Indian music from Bangalore, with whom he has been collaborating for years in the band Saagara. This project is an extraordinary fusion of contemporary Western sounds with one of the oldest cultures in the world.

The concerts as part of the DO 3 X SZTUKA tour will take place on the following dates and locations:

November 17th – Poznań, Centrum Kultury Zamek
November 18th – Katowice, NOSPR

Tickets for these events can be found with our friends at kicket.